Long associated internationally with founder David Ogilvy and his particular standards of creative excellence, Ogilvy India has for the last couple of decades been practically synonymous with a very, very desi brand of brilliance – Piyush Pandey. Plenty of publications have interviewed the man behind the moustache, and perhaps there isn’t much left to say about his work and his worth. On the other hand, it’s never enough. IMPACT catches up with the affable genius.
You could not have missed the buzz around the inaugural season of the Indian Premier League in 2008. Touted as the biggest sporting extravaganza that the cricketing world had ever seen, it epitomised glitz, glamour and sporting chutzpah. It was hailed as the event of the year by many from the media. A year later when the tournament returned for its second showing, the event’s novelty was under the scanner. But where the organisers did their best in keeping the naysayers occupied with their frills, there was a new revolution that was being ingrained into the IPL ecosystem that year – the Zoozoos. Though coming from the creative community, the eggshell-like characters were a runaway hit with one and all. It was no secret what they managed to do to the fortunes of the telecom company Vodafone, and also the broadcaster SET Max that had the creatures to thank for their soaring numbers – apart from the players, of course. But more than the monies, the creatures were an affirmation, and also an example, of the limit to which ad agencies could stretch their creative prowess and prove that nothing is impossible.
While Rajiv Rao and his team at Ogilvy walked away with due credit, it was the foresight of the leader helming this large advertising conglomerate that made the impossible possible – Piyush Pandey. What Piyush Pandey, Executive Chairman and Creative Director, South Asia, Ogilvy & Mather India was doing was making his team think ahead of the time. By giving Rajiv Rao the creative headroom to experiment and redefine the space, Pandey was setting an example for the industry. Clearly, according to Pandey, Zoozoos was one such example which was far ahead of its time. Averred Pandey, “Since we don’t find landmarks we feel nothing is happening. But that is not the case. We have come a long way today. Did we know the power of the Zoozoo when we created the Zoozoo?
No. And then we realised, oh wow, we are sitting on a goldmine. Today, Rajiv Rao and his Vodafone team have created history.”
In fact, history is a term that is synonymous with Piyush. Back in the 70s and 80s when the ad world was all about communicating in English, it was Piyush who was bent on communicating in a language that was more mass and accessible by the consumers - Hindi. Pandey went on to create ads that were cult and were well accepted by both the brands and consumers. When asked on what is the next milestone in terms of use of language by advertising agencies of today, he quipped, “It’s not about Hindi or any other language, it is about respecting your audience. In whatever language your audience speaks, you respect their culture, you respect their environment you respect their sensibilities and you respect their sense of humour.” According to Pandey, the biggest change that came about was that earlier we were aping the West but then the agencies were able to find the richness of their own culture. “We found that it was a much stronger way of appealing to our people, that today people want to learn from us. The West wants to learn from us all the time. I think this is going to be the biggest tipping point ever, that suddenly you start respecting your neighbour.”
Bridging the creativity divide
Given the enormous experience that Piyush Pandey brings with him, there is no doubting the seriousness with which the industry looks up to the man for his views on affairs and issues. Like for instance, the media agency-creative agency divide that industryfolks keep talking about should not be perceived in the manner that it is, he feels. “We shouldn’t think that people in media agencies may not be creative. They all used to be part of an agency earlier. So we should actually applaud the good things that they do and learn from it. We are not competing with them – we are competing in terms of ideas. So either be smart or accept the fact that someone else is better than you and you collaborate with them.” According to Pandey, one shouldn’t be bothered whether the ideas are coming from media or from creative agencies. “If that is the case then I too have given enough media ideas to media agencies all my life, so sometimes they can return the favour,” he retorts.
In fact, Pandey feels that it is important the agencies reorient themselves to ensure their relevance to clients. Citing the personal example of Ogilvy, Pandey said that the agency’s focus was on looking at the needs of today’s consumers and giving them the experience they require. “We’ve recently done work for Bru Cafe who have opened up six outlets in Bombay, which will be 61 in a short period of time. The experience there is about providing a place for Bru moments. So what we are doing is giving the consumer a space which captures the spirit of the brand.” According to Pandey, what the agency is learning as it goes along is what happens in the last mile; how do you study retail behaviour? “We have to keep doing all these things and excel at them. And this reorientation is happening for the sake of the audience,” he quips.
Sailing along for long As for the agency’s personal strides for the future, there is a lot of attention being paid in fostering new arms to keep itself in sync with the changing times. Like for example, the increased emphasis on digital. Says Pandey, “We have hired an international creative director for digital and have also placed one of our best guys as a holistic advertising person in Kunal Jeswani to head Ogilvy One of which digital is a part of. One has to be prepared that when a small digital expenditure becomes 10 per cent, then are you ahead of the game?”
While one can be assured of Ogilvy India’s super showing in the future, what is keeping everyone on tenterhooks is the future whereabouts of the man himself. So while Pandey assures us that he is still around and will keep firing on all cylinders, it will be about teamwork and not about working in silos. “I happen to be here for such a long time that people tend to think that Ogilvy is synonymous with Piyush and likewise. But can Piyush work on 200 brands, can he create 400 commercials in a year? I don’t think so. It’s the strength of the team. It is a tendency that the captain of the team normally gets the limelight.”
On his journey ahead he said, “If you ask me about passing the baton or whether I have taken an extension till now, the answer is not yet. Batons can never be passed in one day; they are passed on a day-to-day level. The creative baton has been passed. When the time comes for the team to have a new captain then there will be a lot of contenders. That is what I take pride in, that this is not an easy course. There will be a lot of people who will be ready for that and I hate the day when I will have to make the choice.” But he is happy that the choice will never be made by him singularly and that there will be a whole lot from Ogilvy Worldwide who will sit down and see what’s the best way of handling transition. But till then, the ad frat could continue to look forward to more Cadbury and Fevikwik moments from the man most known for them. Cheers to that!
‘Game changers are not planned, they happen’
Q] We’d like to begin with your views on the advertising industry in India, and who better to quote than Sir Martin Sorrell on this. While visiting India at FICCI Frames last year, Sir Martin had said that it is no longer about advertising but about the communication services industry, and that that is the way forward. How do you view this statement?
I think the difference that Sir Martin Sorrell is talking about is, don’t look at advertising as traditional advertising. It is a holistic experience and there are various vehicles of carrying forward your message in the advertising world whether it is through social media or digital media or others. I think what he meant was that we should look at this holistically, and not just focus on vehicles that we have been used to till now. More and more vehicles will be available as we go forward; we have to keep our mind open and keep ourselves prepared for it.
Q] As we see the transition in the communication services industry, where do you think creative agencies fit in?
Creative agencies fit right in the centre of this environment. Their job is to make the communication interesting, involving and result-oriented. This all is dependent on ideas; anybody who has a creative bent of mind is a part of the creative agency. I might go to someone to do my mobile advertising, for example, but I will have to come up with the idea on my own. That person may be in a better position to implement the idea than I can, but creative agencies will be at the heart of it at all points in time.
Q] Even as we say that, many creative agencies are attempting at offering holistic solutions by creating digital arms, BTL, rural and so on – but do you think since traditional media is so dominant in India, creative agencies have been unable to focus on specialised arms in the manner that independents can and hence have lost out in that race?
I don’t see any difference at all. I mean a large agency like Ogilvy & Mather also competes with two young creative people who start their own agency. So you need to be better in terms of ideas and better in terms of delivery. If you have great digital guys and you are well-equipped, why would a client go to an independent digital agency? So, not much has changed.
Q] Including Ogilvy, have the agencies been able to do a good job of developing the expertise of specialist units?
Without doubt. In the good old days, there were smaller units which used to do rural advertising till we took it up in a professional way, and today we are the largest rural outfit. So it’s all a question of what you focus on and how brilliantly you can execute it to get results for your clients. As simple as that. If we are not good in the industry itself, that people are going to independents, then we have to make ourselves good. Rural started in the same way as digital is today. If you get the best digital talent and the latest technology to actualise the ideas of that talent, you will be the best digital agency.
Q] In fact, even when one speaks of future forms of consumer engagement like branded content, again it is the media agencies which have taken the lead on that – creative are apparently still stuck in the 30 seconds. What do you think?
I think whether you develop your own skills, at times maybe it is not a good idea to do everything yourself. Outsource. We need to learn to outsource. But when you outsource you just don’t give it away. You outsource with your idea. That is where a creative agency will keep their identity. If I have a great idea on a TV serial, then I’ll hire the best people and tell them to start writing it. For instance, don’t we outsource our film-making? Whose idea is it? It’s our idea. We know that somebody who is practicing it as purely a focused business of theirs is better equipped than me to deliver the results. So outsourcing is not belittling your own abilities; it’s a way of saying that it is a collaborative world. Everyone doesn’t have to know everything.
Q] Say for instance, if one considered some recent examples such as ads on Star Plus about IPL on YouTube. Now that’s an interesting way of promoting IPL on YouTube, except that the idea came from Maxus, which is a media agency.
Don’t think that people who are in media agencies may not be creative. They all used to be part of an agency earlier. So we should actually applaud the good things that they do and learn from it. We are not competing with them – we are competing in terms of ideas. So either be smart, or accept the fact that someone else is better than you and you collaborate with them. There is no cause for worry about whether ideas come from media or from creative agencies. I have given enough media ideas to media agencies all my life, so sometimes they can return the favour.
Q] While a lot has happened in the creative agency space in the last decade, the big revolution really came about when the industry understood the importance of communicating in Hindi...
It’s not just about Hindi, let me underline that statement. It is about respecting your audience. In whatever language your audience speaks, you respect their culture, you respect their environment you respect their sensibilities and you respect their sense of humour. The biggest change that came about was that earlier on we were aping the West. But then we were able to find the richness of our own culture and we found that it was a much stronger way of appealing to our people, and today people want to learn from us. The West wants to learn from us all the time. I think this is going to be the biggest tipping point ever, that suddenly you start respecting your neighbour. We were otherwise respecting the neighbour of a guy who lives in London. The thing is that we should not look for bigtime victories and rewards. I believe that we should look for battles. If you win 20 battles then you’ll have won the war. Landmark things are not planned, landmark things happen. As long as there is a desire at every point in time, that I am going to self-improve every day as I go along. As an individual, as an agency, as a marketer or anybody else.
Q] The industry recognised this facet then and it took steps to elevate Indian advertising on the global level. What next to accentuate and strengthen us on the global level?
I think what is happening already is – since we don’t find landmarks we feel nothing is happening. We have come a long way from the era of doing things and then that era being accepted culturally. A lot of our advertising, as compared to when we began doing that stuff in the second half of the ’80s, is that lots more people are doing it, lots more brands are happening, lots more brands are getting courageous...don’t look for the big landmark. When you believe in winning over yourself every day, in the process you will win over somebody else. But if your entire life is around ‘I want a landmark’, then no landmarks will happen. Game changers are not planned, game changers happen. And they are recognised three years down the line, always. Because when it happens then you don’t even know the impact. Let me give you a very simple example: did we know the power of the Zoozoo when we created the Zoozoo?
No. And then we realised, oh wow, we are sitting on a gold mine; Rajiv Rao and his Vodafone team have created history. History is never written while things are happening, history is always written when you see the impact of things. So I cannot tell today what is going to become big sometime later.
Q] We know of Ogilvy’s capabilities in the English and Hindi language space, but how equipped are you to address audiences in other languages and across geographies?
That’s very easy: you hire people from different cultures. It’s not that I was hired for Hindi. I went to an English-speaking school and happened to bring Hindi along with me from home. Lots of people bring Marathi from home, some bring Gujarati form home... but this question is very important in South India. Like when you have brands which are national but require a cultural touch. We launched a company some years ago called Dakshin. Now Dakshin has some clients which are not Ogilvy clients nationally. They are somebody else’s clients but Dakshin has been entrusted with the responsibility of handling those brands in the South Indian states. I think they have been doing a brilliant job.
Q] Do you see such verticals being created across other centres in India?
We will expand in areas that have a problem. Like I have a lot of my colleagues who are fantastic in Bengali and know a lot about the culture, or even Punjabi for instance... wherever you don’t have a resource your entire commitment to the brand is either appeal to everybody that my brand does so and so, and wherever you don’t have you expand.
Q] Going back to another age-old industry debate, where claims are being made that because of media fragmentation and with inroads being made by digital, the 30-second ad has become a question mark...
This is entirely nonsense. They haven’t even become that in the West, forget about India. You just have to put the IPL on or the World Cup on and you will know what television is about. Nothing is going to die; everything is going to co-exist, everything is going to expand. Everyone wrote that of print media, or even radio...these are sweeping statements I hate. Anyone who makes sweeping statements like these has to eat his own words in a short period of time. As for digital, we have to accept it with our arms wide open. But if you ask me whether it will overtake television in the next ten years? No, it will not. Has it happened in the West? No.
Q] That said, media fragmentation is still taking away from audience’s attention span.
The audience have an attention span of, say ‘x’, this ‘x’ will not change to 0.5x or become 2x but the availability is such that the same ‘x’ will be delivered through different things.
Q] That again posts the challenge to creative agencies, to reorient themselves. Can you take us through, by example of Ogilvy, how creative agencies in India are reorienting to ensure their relevance to clients?
I’ll share our own examples. There are six Bru cafes that have opened up in Bombay, which will be 61 in a short period of time – it’s about providing a place for Bru moments. So what we are doing is giving the consumer a space which captures the spirit of the brand. Also retail advertising, which we are doing currently for Coca-Cola. We are learning as we go along, as to what happens in the last mile; how you study retail behaviour. So we have to keep doing all these things and excel at them. And this reorientation is happening for the sake of the audience. It is looking at the needs of today’s consumer and giving them the experience they require. So you have to read the consumer and pre-empt the direction in which he is going. I can’t give you a much better example than with Bru cafes.
You must remember that these are experiences that you don’t calculate on ROIs. These are things where you raise the level of the brands in the hearts and minds of the consumers.
Q] But somewhere the clients must be emphasising on the ROI before they move forward...
I didn’t invest in an experience like the Asian Paints gallery (at Bandra, Mumbai), the clients did. Nor did I buy the spaces at Bru cafes, the clients did. So we shouldn’t think of clients as something alienating and old: clients are also looking forward to great ideas and experimenting with ideas that we could come up with together. So the client is also seeking to keep pace with the consumer as much as everyone else.
Q] To change tack slightly, what do you think of advertising awards, the issues surrounding them and whether they have become too mechanical as some other industry players say. Has the charm gone out?
I think if you look at the positive, the kind of pride today that agencies take in effectiveness awards is a good one. Whether it is Effies or any other awards...even Cannes has added an Effie category this year. So I think creative awards are only one measure of an agency’s ability. We are beginning to realise that there are other measures also that are very important. If you ask me if the creative awards are going in the right direction, I am not too sure. It has become a rat race; dog-eat-dog. If you think that you are paid for ideas then creative awards is a thing that must always happen. It should happen in the right spirit and I think that the spirit needs to be questioned at this point in time.
Q] Moving on to Ogilvy India – the agency. The agency was headed towards a new era when you elevated Abhijit Avasthi and Rajiv Rao as NCDs in August 2009, and you had said this was done to “refresh and recharge” the agency. Two years later, what is your take on how that decision refreshed and recharged the agency?
If you see the kind of work they have done, the kind of reputation they now command...that is what we meant by “refreshed” and “recharged”. We did not want to change something that was winning, but are you winning big more than you were in the past? I think so.
Q] The thrust was also to bring youngsters to the fore…
Yes bring them ahead and let them speak for themselves of their capabilities. There are a number of things that I do not have a clue about like computers or devices, but do I have a clue that I have to be there in that space, yes I do. And are the youngsters of today better qualified to do that, yes they are. So that’s refresh and recharge.
Q] Unlike other agencies, Ogilvy seems to have an abundance of senior talent. As we move forward, what are perhaps some plans for your senior leaders like Anup Chitnis and Sumanto Chattopadhyay?
They don’t talk about it but they are doing a lot of things for us. Sumanto does a lot of stuff for Kolkata, Sri Lanka...they are all a part of South Asia region in which I too play an integral role. As and when the opportunities come, these are the people who will take us to the future. I am not going to sit here all the time, I have worked hard enough.
Q] You have created a strong set of leaders to lead the agency one day but Ogilvy India even today is synonymous with Piyush Pandey. When do you see the baton being passed?
Let’s put it this way: Ogilvy is synonymous with great creative work. I happen to have been there for such a long time that people can associate me with the agency on those lines. But can Piyush work on 200 brands, can he create 400 commercials in a year? It’s the strength of the team. It is a tendency that the captain of the team gets the limelight. Like in cricket you say Dhoni and company win the match when Dhoni would have scored only 10 runs. But this is the way of life and you should never take it so seriously.
Q] But the captain of the Indian cricket team also changes. When do you see the baton being passed?
Maybe in a short while. I have not even taken an extension till now, unless you want me to pre-retire. Batons can never be passed in one day. This is not 15th August 1947. They are passed on a day-to-day level. The creative baton has been passed. When the time comes for the team to have a new captain then there will be a lot of contenders. That is what I take pride in, that this is not an easy course. There will be a lot of people who will be ready for that and I hate the day when I will have to make the choice. But that choice will never be made by me singularly, there would be a whole lot of us from Ogilvy Worldwide who will sit down and see what’s the best way of handling transition, rather than declaring names.
Q] From 2010 to now, Ogilvy has won more than seven businesses – the likes of FoodFood, VIP Luggage, Amul Macho biz, Spice, ICC, Adidas India 2010 campaign, IDBI Fortis account, and the latest being Onida. Are you happy with the new business acquisition rate of the agency?
Yes, I am satisfied with the good showing this far.
Q] You also have brands such as Meridien and Brand David in Delhi – have they delivered in terms of allowing more volume to the agency?
Volume definitely but I think the task of making them formidable brands is on. They are making great progress, it’s just that they need two big campaigns and then probably you’ll see them as bigger brands than some of the other brands in the marketplace.
Q] While on brands, the last 2-3 years saw a host of big names enter the country and establish a base here - whether we take the examples of BBH, BBDO or W+K. Do you think these agencies have made an impact so far?
Not as yet. But there has been some very good work that has come out from them, like for example BBDO that did the “women against lazy stubble” creative and so on. The point here is that they are big global brands and we cannot write them off in a year or so. They are all good youngsters; let’s see what they make out of it.
Q] What about the local agency heads who have moved on to launch their own firms in India?
That is not a new phenomenon. We had people like Rajiv Agrawal who started Nexus Equity, Mohammad Khan who started Enterprise, or Frank Simoes who started his own agency...so you will always have youngsters who dream of starting their own agency – that process has always been there. Why are large agencies called Ogilvy & Mather, why are they called Bartle Bogle & Hegarty? Because three guys got upset with scenarios and wanted to make something of their own. So companies begin that way. Some succeed and become bigger while some are happy to be where they are. One will have to wait and watch. Agencies are not made overnight. When somebody sustains for ten years, then one should be able to say that yes, this one has made an impact.
Q] When Miles Young visited India lately he mentioned that the agency’s big focus was on digital. What are some of the big things that we can expect from Ogilvy on the digital front?
We have hired an international creative director for digital; we placed one of our best guys as a holistic advertising person in Kunal Jeswani to head Ogilvy One, of which digital is a part. One has to be prepared – when a small digital expenditure becomes 10 per cent, are you ahead of the game?
Q] With the coming of age of digital, does it take away from the focus of mediums like radio, OOH, etc?
Why should it? I think all creative directors of today and the future will have to look at this medium and see, hey, I do not want to do a TV campaign for this client and I think viral will work better for it...that is the way to think. We must start with a medium. Pick up a problem and then choose a medium which you think is the best to lead that.
Q] Moving on to a more personal side of your story, how involved are you in the day-to-day operations of the agency?
A hundred per cent.
Q] What about your South Asian responsibilities?
That doesn’t take much of the time. That’s largely on thought process and when there are active things like when we pitch for regionally, it’s not just me but my whole team is involved. India is a significant player in the world game. So if we are pitching some business in the UK and the business is a global one then in the team four guys are from India or from China or from wherever. So if you are a global company you should be able to demonstrate to your clients that you have equal capability wherever you are.
Q] In the last two years, we have also seen your role as a mentor for many industry youngsters become stronger. Whether it is platforms like Cannes and Spikes, where you hold workshops, or it is Berlin University... How are you balancing this with your everyday work responsibilities?
I think all these jobs are important; it’s never a thing of one taking precedence over the other. You have to remember who pays you your salary and that is the first priority. Also, you have to remember that you have a responsibity to give back so you have to find time for that. You have to motivate people to come into the industry and motivate new talent – not just for Ogilvy but for the industry. So it’s an ongoing exercise.
Q] You have created a huge place for yourself in the Indian and the global advertising industry – what is next for you now?
More. I have never planned life; I have taken everything as it comes. And, so far so good.
Q] You interact with many creative heads in this industry – not necessarily just from your agency. Who would you say is the next creative force, or forces, to reckon with?
There are lots of good young creative names who are good in what they do. If you ask me to select the top 5 or something I cannot do that and I will never do that. But there are lot of good youngsters in the industry and that is the reason why over the years the respect for Indian advertising has gone up. So who will emerge? I think many names will emerge. Naming anybody will be incorrect on my part; they will have to write their own names as they go along.
