Known as much for his free-and-frank method of expression as for his zany – and immensely effective – creatives, Bobby Pawar made waves when he moved from New York to join Mudra four years ago. Since then Mudra has grown in size, excelled in creativity and won many awards. This year, the agency won the highest number of metals at GoaFest. However, the Chief Creative Officer from Mudra is not relaxing a wee bit as he sets his eye on making Mudra the No 1 creative agency in India.
The biggest challenge he says is to inject creativity in all verticals of Mudra and to ensure the agency mantra of producing infectious ideas on brands is practised every single day. Steering a ship as big as Mudra isn’t easy, but for Pawar, every single day marks a new beginning. “We wouldn’t be satisfied even if we are called the greatest agency in the universe, because you’re the greatest agency in the universe on that day. Tomorrow is another day. So for me, the biggest challenge is to be what we are today. I’m not so focused on the outside world; what I am worried about is us and where we are going.”
Pawar is optimistic of the agency’s future. In this freewheeling interview with Rishi Vora and Vidya Heble he talks about his so far successful journey, the challenges ahead, GoaFest controversies, the abysmal 3G experience and much more. Excerpts.
Q] It’s been four years since you came in at Mudra… how has the journey been?
It’s been satisfying. I’m pleased but not happy, in the sense that every day you want more. And I wouldn’t have it any other way. We’ve evolved as a company and our mission statement is at the core of everything we do. We’re all about infectious ideas that influence behaviour. It’s just focusing the organisation on the expression of that thinking, and the execution of that expression.
Q] What is the difference between the Mudra that you joined, and the agency that has won the maximum metals at GoaFest?
The change, more than the external manifestation, is internal; the belief that we are really really good at what we do, and going out and doing it. It’s the people who believe in the same things we do. We’ve got people who are incredibly passionate, hungry and impatient to get there. We are about ideas – broad ideas rather than big ideas, ideas that stretch the envelope and are there at every touchpoint where the consumer engages with the brand. Rather than that one big commercial. What I’m happy about is that the outdoor division is as creative as the traditional advertising agency. That’s what drives us, to inject creativity, freshness of thinking, inventiveness in everything we do. In every aspect of business, the thing that differentiates us from everybody else, I think, is that we look at everything from a creative solutions perspective.
Q] How difficult – or challenging – is it for you personally to inject creativity across the verticals of Mudra?
It is a challenge. There is almost nobody else who has the mandate that I do in this business. There is only one CD who has the responsibility for the creative product across all the touchpoints. Every day I have to evolve a way of working. The media is changing, the way we approach them has to change. Consumers are changing and we have to change with them. One of the basics of this is relationships. You’ve got to have the right people – our little gang of thieves – us against the world and we have to find our way and get our thing done. I have to stay in touch every day, make sure I know what’s going on with them, be there to help them when they need helping and, equally so, that I get out of the way when I’m not needed. I don’t have the answers to everything but I can enable people who have the answers to do things better or help them sell something that they probably have. I’ve got to find my role in what is going on at that moment. I can’t say that I’m going to come in and do this and this only – I’ll never be effective.
Around here, nobody’s the boss. The idea is the boss. If it’s a great idea, no matter who has it, we allserve it. I may have a designation but if somebody has a better argument about the idea, that guy wins. I will not kill an idea unless I can tell you why it doesn’t work. Just because Bobby Pawar doesn’t like an idea doesn’t mean it won’t be presented. It only means that Bobby Pawar doesn’t like the idea. Because on any given day I could be wrong. I might have a brain fart for the next half an hour. That doesn’t mean a great idea should suffer just because I cannot appreciate it at that point of time. We keep it like that, so that even the juniormost person can voice their thoughts. If you can articulate why that idea is great and I cannot, if my argument against it is weaker than yours, then you win. Doesn’t matter what it says on your business card.
Q] Is it fair to say that Mudra is a creative-led agency, more than strategy? Say 60-40, creative-to-strategy?
We are an ideas-led agency. I couldn’t care less where the ideas come from. Maybe the idea comes from an account management guy and we just go in and write scripts for it. The script itself is not an idea; it’s an expression of an idea. It’s all right if there are 20 people working on an idea because you’ll get 20 ways of looking at the same thing. So that’s what we are trying to do, to be not just individually brilliant but collaboratively genius.
Q] You’ve worked in the US with BBDO – and Mudra is a communications group, it’s not just about doing advertising around a brand. What are your experiences of the past and now working with Mudra, considering that it is a communications group and not strictly an advertising group?
I was in the US when the whole convergence of media thing began to happen. On most of my brands especially when I moved to BBDO from Ogilvy in NY, all these other media started to become really important, started to take off and do new things. So I had no choice but to jump in. We used to work closely with GMR which is one of the experiential marketing companies which Omnicom owns, and EVB, San Francisco, who did the digital part of it. Some of the first awards I’ve won at BBDO are for the digital work and experiential work. So there was that thing of collaborating, also within the agency, between planning and all these functions and treating planning as almost the third partner in the creative team. I used to tell my guys, bring your planner along when presenting your ideas. I wanted the thinking to be part of the expression. We were also starting to collaborate with companies outside ours. We all got some great work out.
And that’s one of the reasons I chose to come to Mudra. I can get to practice the things I’ve learnt here, spread that spirit, try some things, experiment and build a new kind of agency. That’s part of the journey we’re on. Some part of what is happening with engaging with consumers is changing all the time, technology is changing and that forces its own kind of change. And we don’t know exactly where it is headed.
Q] How did Mudra come along? Do you think that being an Indian homegrown agency gives you an added advantage as against a network agency?
Being Indian gives us a lot of freedom. We can try things that network agencies can’t because what they are is dictated by what headquarters dictates. The way we work, the things we choose to get involved in, there’s no one telling us yes or no. The freedom to be independent, to try new things and keep pace with the consumer in a way we think is right – that’s something network agencies don’t have. We can be much faster, nimbler, and quicker to abandon things that don’t work. In a network agency, if you try something because it’s been tried globally, and if it doesn’t work, you can’t stop doing it because it’s the freaking diktat. We have no such trappings.
I was hired by two people – Bob Scarpelli and Madhukar. Both of them posed the same challenges and the one thing we would like is, we want the work to be great and worthy of the DDB name. That was an interesting challenge. In three years, we should be in the Top 3. Last year, we were No 2, I think, at the Abbys. This year, well – (chuckles) it depends on whom you ask, where we’re at. If you do the math, No 1 comes to mind.
Q] Would you say 2010 was one of the best years for Mudra, creatively?
What happens in a place is, you keep pushing the agenda, the belief system, the culture; and the changes are gradual, but after some point something clicks, everything snaps into place, the lights just go on…
Q] The tipping point?
The tipping point happened sometime around July-August last year, a little before that – we did the Vento thing, the talking newspaper and all that. Some of it was landmark work. The two most talked about pieces of work last year were the Vento (when was the last time an Indian campaign got written about in the Washington Post and covered by BBC London?) and the silent national anthem. That went insanely viral.
Q] The talking newspaper idea – what was the client’s immediate reaction when you proposed it?
They loved it.
Q] VW was a big account for the agency in a highly competitive market – what was the strategy behind breaking the clutter and ensuring that the campaign results in one of the most successful launches of an automobile company?
Lutz Kothe and I decided from the start that the work has to be as innovative as the brand itself. A lot of the VW work we’ve done is very different from the car advertising that people are used to seeing. People crying as the car is being made; a sceptic being openly sceptical about whether the car can deliver what we say it can. Even the work that is now on, the Blue Motion technology, the Passat campaign running on the IPL, is very different from the category. So in that sense that has been satisfying. We’ve set ourselves a mark and we’ve gone after it. People are free to have their own opinions about it, but the one thing you can’t deny is that we have been incredibly successful.
Q] Do you regret losing any accounts, some of which you would have probably wanted to retain?
It’s not so much about the businesses because they come and go but it’s about the people who drive it. Joono Simon is still with us; basically it’s about relationships. Some days we do have tiffs with clients but those are very few. I regret that I haven’t been able to stick to my desire to lose weight. Having said that, it hasn’t been easy; it’s a big ship and to point it in another direction it will take a lot of doing. We always have healthy debates about different things – get everybody aligned, get everybody moving, trying to sell great work…inject clients with the same fervour that we have. Every day is a different day and it brings its own challenges.
Q] Since you mentioned that the ship has to sail in another direction, it’s a big challenge to go about achieving that…
You know, we wouldn’t be satisfied even if we are called the greatest agency in the universe. Because you are the greatest agency in the universe on that day. Tomorrow is another day. So for me, the biggest challenge is to be what we are today. I’m not so focused on the outside world; what I am worried about is us and where we are going. I just don’t want any of us to ever be happy with where we are at. In this business, you have to keep on running to stay where you are. I have a simple motto that I tell my guys: do at least one thing that scares you every day. You may fail in trying to do that but if you haven’t tried then you haven’t done anything that can redefine something. That’s the game for us. Before I leave this business, I would like to look back and say, hey, you know what, I surfed on the freaking biggest wave that was. I recognised that wave would come, all of us were there and before anybody else knew that the wave is going to form we rode it like champions.
Q] Does that mean that you don’t set long-term targets for the agency?
The target is to be great; it is to invent new things. The target is to build incredibly successful brands. The target is to have communication ideas that are so infectious that people talk about that. So those are the goals that we set ourselves. Hopefully the end result of that is that the greatness will be sustained over a period of time. Not only just being great for a few months, which is why you have to keep challenging yourself.
Q] Moving on to the digital part of the business, what are your plans?
Digital has always been a big thing for us. Forget about just the digital medium, I think what clients need is to have a digital mindset. In the sense that when I engage with the consumer the consumer gets to engage with me as well. It’s a two-way thing. It shouldn’t just be about the message and the sales pitch. So that’s the mindset that I want all the companies to possess. Certain agencies will have the expertise and I think digital expertise is a medium. That expertise should reside even within the traditional agencies because that’s something that will happen over a period of time. A lot of people do come with digital ideas in mainline Mudra and DDB and we try and make those happen.
Q] And also the mobile, which is touted to be the big device of tomorrow.
Mobile is going to be huge – everybody is saying that. The problem is that people haven’t been able to figure out a way to make it work beyond the most inane – intrusive, spam SMS-ing and all of that. It’s going to be a different thing and will be enabled by a creative use of technology. Understanding of the technology itself is not there.
Q] Do you think India as a market is ready for the digital leap?
The people will be ready long before the agencies are. If you look at most senior industryfolks across agencies, they know nothing. That’s the unfortunate part. How much do I know? Very little but the thing is that I am going to do my best to get there. The users are curious. One forgets that the country is full of young people who by nature are very experimental. So brands need to experiment far more in the mobile space than they are now. A lot of that would be creative technology ideas, a lot of that would be media-led technology ideas…we need to figure that out, it doesn’t matter what they are as long as the consumer wants to reach out to it. You cannot force it down anybody’s throat any more in that medium. I’ve got to make it a great experience which people want to engage with.
Q] Also it doesn’t help that the market for tablets and 3G has still not arrived in a big way.
Yes, that’s because the platform has under-delivered. 3G right now is a terrible experience; it barely works. It’s completely nascent and I think that once the network itself starts delivering then the pipeline solidifies, the speeds are up there and then the content will be delivered through it. What mobile will do if done right is will help convert impulse into action. Like if I see a shirt on my mobile phone and I can right then go to a mall and buy it, that’s what mobile can help deliver – impulse into action.
Q] Would you say that telcos have missed the bus when it comes to 3G advertising?
It’s not an opportunity missed, what it is is this: they should stop advertising 3G. The experience right now is so bad that users have been vocal about their displeasure with companies like Vodafone, etc. People should remember the basic principles of this business. Bill Bernbach had said it some half a century ago, that great advertising only makes a bad product fail faster. That’s what the 3G players today should pay heed to. If you don’t have a great product, then first fix it. Vodafone’s ad that claims it’s super, fast, etc…it’s not that, buddy. ZooZoos, I can tell you, are naked. The experience is so not great. The speeds are abysmally slow. One of the things that pisses me off about marketers and advertisers in this country is that we take it beyond exaggeration at times. We fool ourselves into thinking that it’s okay, it’s just an exaggeration and a creative license. The thing is in the old world, people kind of forgave everything as they had the chalta hai attitude. But the consumer of today is an impatient consumer and if they get ticked off they ain’t coming back to you. Not only that, they share the bad experience with their friends, post it on social networking sites, etc. Marketers and advertisers need to be cognisant of this fact.
I don’t think anybody needs to know what 3G is. People would go on their phone and anyway discover it. 3G cannot be explained by anybody. It’s an experience and I can’t understand how a 30-second commercial can explain that. But if I tell you that 3G is going to be so different for you that it makes you so curious that you want to check it out…
Q] Would you then say that 3G is a challenge that advertising agencies have not been able to take up in right earnest?
They have fulfilled the basic criteria but not one of them has articulated how 3G will change people’s lives. Fundamentally, 3G changes the cellphone from a communication device to a life tool. But has anybody spoken about that? Nobody has.
Q] Which is the move which will take Mudra to another level?
There’s only one move – work harder and smarter than the next guy!
Q] Which is the one business you wish you had?
I’d love to work on Aircel, I think that’s a brand that has incredible promise. They have a sense of strategic focus about them that makes them a player for the long run. If they find the right kind of expression for what they are about, it will resonate. And for us they’ve been great partners, we did the whole lifeboat outdoor ambient idea for them.
Q] Do you think the agency which is working on Aircel now is doing the right things?
No. I think some things are nice but they could be a whole lot bigger in terms of scope and how you approach things. Pocket Internet is an amazing innovation. It seems like “Oh what the hell it’s another card”, but think about it and it’s actually the democratisation of the mobile internet. Jeb mein saat rupya hai, you can still surf. And that’s a great idea. The thing is, it wasn’t presented as such.
Q] Moving on to the industry per se, what are your observations on the way GoaFest was conducted this year? We know of what transpired last year on the leaks and jury front. According to you, what really went wrong with the fest the past years? It’s actually about how things are run. If things are more organised, if they are presented in a logical fashion, if there is a strong process to it, then things will function better. This year, they had put the process in place so voting for yourself could not happen. That’s the problem with the bigger agencies, you cannot know possibly everything that’s happened. So as a judge you don’t have to worry about hey, is this mine or not and you just go ahead and vote. But I think it was just cleaning up of the process and I think it was great.
One of the things that could be improved is that if you have a shortlist being sent out, don’t attach the agency name to it because then bias begins to creep in. Or have the judging happen on consecutive days. The point of shortlisting and spending time between the judging is to give the auditors enough time to sort of contact clients and verify things. Even if you have the judging between two consecutive days and give that time to auditors, that will still happen. Because if they spot any mess they can still pull the entries up. That’s fair enough. But I think announcing the shortlist with the agencies is not right. You want people to judge your work and not the agency.
Q] This year, the Awards Governing Council did not have an official points tally to show. It was left to the imagination of the end user. You think that was a good move?
I am a strong proponent of having the Agency of the Year thing. There should be points awarded for shortlist, points awarded for Grand Prix, Gold, Silver and Bronze. They should follow the system practised at Cannes. The entire categorisation thing is done as per what is done at Cannes, so you might as well follow their points system as well. Every shortlist is one point and you should stop counting the shortlist points after ten. Then after that, every bronze is three points, every silver is five, every gold is seven points and a Grand Prix is ten points. It’s that simple.
Q] Conversations with industry leaders have revealed that it brings a lot of negativity in the whole system where agencies try and do anything and everything possible to get awards. So rather than saying this is the best and this is not, the awards are just put in alphabetical order.
Well, I don’t know what order they put the tally in, but the thing is that people are always going to make their own conclusions. In a contest, people always want to know “Who won?” That’s human nature. Like, One Show doesn’t have agency of the year. Then have Best of Show, or something. Or say we don’t have any categorisation and we won’t get involved in that at all. But the halfway measures don’t help.
Q] Do you think it’s a good idea to have the Abbys at GoaFest? What were your thoughts when this was debated?
(Laughs) I’ll say it straight up: If the Abbys had happened in Mumbai, we would have gone for the Abbys and not for the rest of it. For one very simple reason – the biggest agencies would be at the Abbys and you want to fight with the freaking giants and not with the minnows. That’s where it’s at for us. You know what, as long as they can make it work. But I don’t think there is any place for two awards shows unless they are radically different from each other in terms of how they see, how they judge. Cannes and One Show are very different.
Q] So would you say that at this point, the Abbys are the focal point of GoaFest?
People only come to GoaFest for the Abbys. If there were no Abbys… well, no one’s coming for the seminars, let me tell you that.
Q] So should GoaFest do more to gain its own personality?
It does have a personality of its own; it’s a festival. People say that oh, all the youngsters come there to party and they say that like it’s a bad thing! I don’t think that at all – you meet different people from different agencies and you feel that man, this is an industry. And this is an industry to be proud of. It’s a glamorous event. Even the seminars get good attendance; those that don’t, it’s probably because the seminars are boring, the speakers are boring or whatever. So the organisers need to figure out whom they’re going to hold the seminars for. For themselves or for the younger people? If it’s for the younger people they need to get speakers who will appeal to the younger guys.
Q] So what kind of speakers should there be?
Bring in the young creative hotshots from across the region, the hottest CCD from Sydney, why do you want to get freaking fogies? Mr [Robin] Wight is a good guy but he got his shit done 20 years ago. Frankly I couldn’t care less about [John] Hegarty. Because not that I don’t respect him, I respect the man immensely. But are they doing great stuff today? They aren’t. They’ve been out of the conversation for a while. They were great in the 90s; the last decade has been not so great for them. So get the guys who are doing cutting edge work. There’s Toby Talbot from DDB New Zealand, he would come down. Get the current rock stars. Instead… somebody from Naked will come… the young creative people are there, why is anybody interested in listening to that guy? And all these old guys sit there and say you know, we’re bringing in some fantastic names… they’re fantastic for you. You can’t play jazz for an audience that’s into hip-hop, for chrissake. Let’s learn. We are in the communication business. What we do needs to appeal to our target audience. It’s not “Goa School of Advertising”, is it? It’s GoaFest. And entrance is not mandatory at the ringing of a school bell. People are going to say, Hey do I find this interesting, am I going to get anything out of it? They’re going to decide that within the first two minutes – why that, they’re going to decide that when they read the guy’s name. Wight – he’s a CEO, WCRS [Wight Collins Rutherford Scott] and all that. Like these younger people have even heard of WCRS; they’ll say kaun hai buddha?
Hegarty is still relevant, but they’ve got to understand that the others – they made great presentations but they’re not relevant to the people who were there. It’s relevant to have people from the region who are doing cutting edge work, let them talk.
Q] Almost the last question: Mudra’s finished more than 30 years. Where do you see the agency at 50 years?
In all aspects, No 1! There’s only one number, and that’s it. I’m not interested in anything else.
Q] Like other senior members of the industry who’ve excelled in their Bollywood endeavours, do you also have similar plans?
The thing is, I’m too lazy. I only do things for which I get paid. (Laughs)
